ZACH MOORE: Welcome to On Health with Houston Methodist. I'm Zach Moore. I'm a photographer and editor here, and I'm also a longtime podcaster.

KIM RIVERA HUSTON-WEBER:  I’m Kim Rivera Huston-Weber, and I’m a copywriter here at Houston Methodist.

ZACH: And Kim, do you drink mocktails?

KIM: You know, I would say yes. I will partake sometimes, but I think more often, if I’m going to have a drink like that, I’m probably going to have the cocktail version of it.

ZACH: Yeah, I don’t think I’ve had a mocktail since I was under 21.

KIM: Yeah.

ZACH: I remember drinking a lot of virgin pina coladas when I was younger.

KIM: Yeah, a little Shirley Temples maybe?

ZACH: Yeah, yeah. But now, if I’m like, “Well, I’m gonna drink alcohol or I’m not gonna drink alcohol.” Like, if I’m not gonna drink alcohol, I’ll do a soft drink or a chocolate shake, you know? So, that’s kinda how I think about it and approach it.

KIM: I feel like mocktails and drinks, these non-alcoholic or low alcohol drinks, they’re a way for folks that are wanting to cut back on drinking, or maybe they don’t drink anymore to engage in that social aspect that I think -- I mean, I think of drinking as a social activity.

ZACH: Right, right. Same.

KIM: Like you said, if I’m not gonna drink, I’ll have a pop, you know?

ZACH: Yeah. You know, it does hit -- it does hit different if I’m at a bar with some people and I’m drinking a chocolate shake or something, right? But yeah, just to kinda, you know, you wanna have the same vibe going on and not be self-conscious about it. I know that there are a lot of factors at play when it comes to mocktails, I think.

KIM: Yeah, I think that’s one of the biggest ones because, you know, if everyone’s standing around holding a bottle of beer and you’re holding your can of pop, you know, it might make you feel out of place. And so, I think things like mocktails, these no and low alcohol drinks are a way for folks to still enjoy the social aspects of drinking without the alcohol.

ZACH: Mhm. Now, one of the questions I’m sure people ask is, “Oh, is it healthier to drink mocktails?” And that’s one of the many questions we’re talking about today in our exploration of mocktails. And who did we talk to about this, Kim?

KIM: Yeah, we spoke with Mag Ayyad, he’s a registered dietitian here at Houston Methodist.

[Sound effect plays to signal beginning of interview]

Thanks for being with us today, Mag.

DR. MAG AYYAD: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Thank you.

KIM: Of course. So, it feels like we’re living through a sea change in American attitudes towards drinking. Gallup poll shows that 62% of adults under 35 say they drink, and that’s down 10% from something like 20 years ago. Young adults drink less frequently and they’re less likely to binge drink. The only demographic where drinking is increasing is adults 55 and over, surprisingly. So, what do you think is affecting this sea change to drink less or to not drink at all?

DR. AYYAD: Yeah, a great question. I think increased awareness in general. So, what I associate this or give an example for when people ask is think of the tobacco industry back in the day where it was cool to smoke a cigarette. They also even touted, like, some health benefits to smoking, so. They had kicked off, it boomed, and then later on in later decades, all these studies came out and people started realizing the detrimental effects you have, so people stopped, people have reduced. And I think that’s what’s happening here, especially with our younger generations. They’re becoming more aware of the dangers of drinking or binge drinking especially. They’re becoming more health conscious. I think the same, like, it’s probably not a great idea to smoke, it’s probably not a great idea to incorporate drinking often. Fear of losing control. Unfortunately, in today’s world, like you’re afraid of if you go out to a bar, if you go out somewhere, what’s gonna be in your drink? If you get too drunk, what might happen to you? So, coupled with that with, I think the newer generation, especially gen Z, a lot of them are more stay at home, and you’re not finding them going out to bars, going out to events. So, that is also reducing your exposure to alcohol in places that carry a lot of these beverages or these settings so. I think a combination of a lot of stuff, more awareness, just different generation, and now they’re just realizing hey, this is probably not the best, even though we were told earlier a lot of things have come out to say it’s probably not a good idea to drink as much as we used to.

KIM: Pairing with that, you say that we’re getting more health conscious about drinking. What are the health benefits of cutting back on our drinking, and is reaching for a non-alcoholic drink always the best option?

DR. AYYAD: Yeah, tons of benefit. Think all-cause mortality is reduced, from cancer to diabetes, to heart disease, strokes. All of the diseases that we can potentially think of dramatically reduce if alcohol is cut out. You have a reduced risk if you’re just cutting out some of it. Healthier liver functions. You don’t have to worry about, you know, the impact you have on the liver if you’re constantly drinking. Improves sleep. You don’t have to battle with IBS or gut issues. Better hydration. Alcohol is dehydrating us, so the more we’re drinking it, the less hydrated our body is. So, there’s a ton of benefits to not consuming it. Now, is having a mocktail or having a non-alcoholic beverage the better option? It’s a better option ‘cause there’s no alcohol content in it. But we’ll dive a little deeper into that, and what makes up that mocktail, it’s kind of -- the dose makes the poison. Just like they say with liquor and alcohol, depending on what you’re choosing in that and how much you’re consuming, sure, it might be 0% next to the alcohol content, but what does it carry? So, that’s another question to dive into.

KIM: So, that’s so interesting. And like you said, there’s been a swell in the market in terms of beverages with little or no alcohol content. And it’s all been, kind of, popularly coined as Nolow, for no and low alcohol. So, you brought up mocktails and that’s why we’re chatting today. Why do you think they’ve become so popular as a Nolow option?

DR. AYYAD: Yeah, I think it relays back to the first couple questions, right? So, there’s more awareness to not drink as much. We’ve realized the health benefits of reducing our alcohol intake. So, what is the other option? Because we may enjoy the taste or certain things that go into a beverage. Take a margarita for example. We may enjoy the cold, refreshing, lime taste that we get, but we don’t wanna have liquor in it. So, I think that’s the surge and that’s where it’s coming it from. I was, kind of, looking at that and it says 25% increase over the next few years where that industry is going. So, I don’t know what the number is now. May be billions already. But think of 25% increase of that. So, there’s definitely a desire for it and there’s definitely a market for it. But I think its people enjoy the flavors, people enjoy the settings that they’re in, if they wanna go out to an occasion or a celebration, they can still have it and it’s almost like you’re part of it without saying, “You know what, I’m just gonna grab a glass of water. Or I’m just gonna get a Coke.” You can still indulge yourself, you can feel like you’re part of the mix, but if you’re trying to remove the alcoholic content, enter the Nolow drinks, enter the non-alcoholic beers and wines where you are fitting in, but you’re still, kind of, using the guidelines, and you’re using what your value is of, “Hey, I don’t necessarily wanna drink alcohol.”

KIM: With cocktails, I think of the fancy mixologist guy shaking…

[Laughing]

Shaking the drinks and having a wide array of ingredients available. So, fruit, bitters, herbs, tonics. Like, I’m just thinking what might just be behind a bar sometimes. The list could go on. So, is a mocktail simply just making a cocktail without pouring the liquor in, or is there more to it and what makes a good one?

DR. AYYAD: The short answer, yeah. You can take any alcoholic beverage, a margarita, a Gin and Tonic, anything you name, remove the liquor aspect of it and that’s your mocktail because you’re still getting all the flavors that go into that beverage. So, what makes a good mocktail, essentially, is the person drinking it to enjoy it. To enjoy the flavors. As far as from a good perspective, there’s the health aspect of it, which we’ll dive into that. But what makes a tasty mocktail, it’s all dependent on the person. Like you said, you can use herbs, you can use spices, you can use different bases of a drink whether it’s a juice or just a sparkling water. As long as they’re enjoying it, it’s probably a better alternative because we’ve removed the calories that come from alcohol and the effect that we get from it. I think to make a good mocktail, it’s dependent on the person. You still need to shake it and stir it up into that same cocktail that the bartender would be using, but you’re just removing that liquor aspect out of it.

KIM: Well, I’m glad I wasn’t being reductive about…

DR. AYYAD: You’re absolutely right.

KIM: Simply removing the alcohol. Again, like, with mixology being so popular, I could see someone being a little intimidated trying to make mocktails for themselves at home. So, do we need to be having that full stocked mocktail bar at home at our disposal to create these drinks? And you know, if we’re interested in it, you know, what should we have on hand at home to make something that’s simple and easy to drink?

DR. AYYAD: I think the convenient part about it is most of the ingredients you would use, you probably already have at home. Whether it’s spices or herbs, if you’re gonna use thyme, or if you’re gonna use mint, you might already have that at home because you’re using it in cooking. Or you might not. But maybe you think of that, like, what beverages do I enjoy? What flavors do I want? Some people might add vanilla to a mocktail, but think of the base of a beverage, it’s usually a juice base. Some people will use kombucha, some people will use a sparkling water, some people will add some soda into it. So, a lot of these ingredients, most of us have at home already. So, you don’t need to set up a whole bar full of drinks, and herbs, and spices just to have your mocktail whenever you want it. Most of it is already in your cabinet, most of it is in your fridge, and it’s just about -- I mean, you’ll find tons of recipes at this point if you look online. But some people already know what they like, they already know the flavors. So, it’s just about mixing them to get the right consistency, to get the right texture, to get the right flavor. You can mix it in a cup. You don’t need to get the fancy shaker and pretend that you’re flipping it around and shaking it over, you can just get a little stirrer, put a cup in, put some ice, pour it all on and -- that’s part of the fun, right? That’s part of you exploring and you realizing what you like. Hey, some drinks are gonna go down the drain, you’re not gonna like them but, you know, it’s trial and error. Just like a recipe, you start to refine it. But I would say most things you already have at home.

KIM: Some people wanting to drink less may not gravitate toward mocktails for whatever reason. Maybe they weren’t liquor drinkers, so they don’t feel as connected to those kind of beverages or flavors. And so, in this Nolow market, there’s undoubtably been an explosion with non-alcoholic beers and wines. So, what should folks be aware of about non-alcoholic beer and wine if anything?

DR. AYYAD: They are not calorie free. Just because you’re removing the alcohol content, you’re removing calories. But most non-alcoholic beers, most wines that don’t contain the alcohol content, they still have calories, and they still have a decent amount of calories unless it is advertised as a zero to ten calorie drink. Which I don’t think, in my experience, or even just asking clients, patients, they don’t enjoy those as much ‘cause they’re not as flavorful. You’re removing the carbohydrate content, you’re removing the alcohol content, it’s not a flavorful drink. So, we are reaching for those higher calorie drinks, even if we’re removing the alcohol. So, think beers, probably still 70-100 calories. Wine, even if you’re removing the alcohol content, 50, 80 calories per serving, per 12-ounce beer or 6-ounce glass of wine. So, it depends on how many you’re having. If you end up having three or four, what are your goals? If your goals are maintenance of weight, weight loss, it’s not gonna necessarily push you towards that. You’re still adding calories, it’s still impacting your overall caloric intake. So, something to be very aware of is how many calories you’re consuming from your fluids, even if you’re removing the alcohol content. Yes, it’s less calories than its alcoholic brother or sister, but it’s still packing on the calories especially if you’re like, “Hey, it’s the weekend, I got a six-pack of non-alcoholic beer. That six-pack ends up being 7-800 calories, and you’re like, “Why am I not losing weight? Why am I stuck at this weight that I’m trying to achieve? I thought I was removing alcohol and that was good.” It’s positive for health, but it’s not necessarily gonna yield other results, especially for those that are looking for weight loss, or just regulating their weight in general.

KIM: That’s very interesting to hear because we all know that it can probably be very, very easy to overdo it with cocktails, beer, and wine that contain alcohol, really no matter the type. But can you really overdo it with mocktails or this non-alcoholic beer or wine?

DR. AYYAD: Yeah, great takeaway. I would say it depends. It depends on the type of drink you’re having. So, if your base of a mocktail is some sparkling water and you throw in some herbs in there, and maybe you jazz it up with lavender or you jazz it up with another flavor, usually that’s a pretty minimal calorie drink. Have at it. That’s hydrating you, it’s not impacting you negatively, you’re not adding a ton of calories into your diet, but if we go back to our previous question, if you’re using those beers, or you’re using those wines, and you’re having a couple a night, consider the calories because I would almost put the same recommendation of restricting it as alcoholic beverages. Again, depending on your goals, if you don’t have any weight issues and you’re just enjoying yourself, then maybe there isn’t as much of a restriction. But I would consider the calories. If a mocktail and you’re using an actual full sugar soda, if you’re using a sugary tea base, if you’re using kombucha that has calories, again, how many are you having of those? And how many calories is that adding up? How much sugar are you intaking? Let’s say for our prediabetics and our diabetics, they wanna enjoy a mocktail, they’ve done a good job of reducing their alcohol content, but they still might be getting a lot of sugar from that drink. They might be spiking their sugar. They might not be able to lower those numbers if they’re utilizing this as, “Hey, this is a freebie because it doesn’t have any alcohol in it.” So, it kinda depends on the diagnosis, it kinda depends on the person’s goals, but I always recommend, “Hey, let’s utilize a lower sugar base of a fluid.” So, sparkling waters, low calorie diet sodas, even lower calorie kombuchas. And then use those herbs and seasonings because they’re not adding calories. But if you’re starting to add syrups, and if you’re starting to add more flavors, you’re adding more and more calories, you’re adding more and more sugar. So, again just because we remove the alcohol content doesn’t deem it, “Hey, this is a great drink. I can have as many as I want.”

KIM: So, with non-alcoholic beer and non-alcoholic wine, is it really non-alcoholic or is the industry allowed to have at least a little trace amount of alcohol in it?

DR. AYYAD: Yeah, great question. I would say there is leeway. So, when it comes to how much can be tolerated and still call it non-alcoholic, we’re talking about .5%. So, for those that are aiming to completely cut out alcohol, cut out liquor, that is something that you would focus on. If you’re adding bitters, if you are adding Luxargo, Green Chartreuse, you don’t use very much of them in the beverage, they might not contribute very much, but you can’t truly call them non-alcoholic. It’s not zero percent. Because as an industry, you are allowed to have .5 percent and still call it zero. Similar to like whenever you look at a nutrition label on food, it says, “Zero grams of trans fat.” They’re allowed to have .5 grams of trans fat in their food, but they can put zero because that’s just an industry policy. Same with those beverages. So, important to know what ingredients you’re putting in, look up, research the items that are going into your drink. But if it doesn’t bother you and you know you’re having very little alcohol content, then that’s okay. Just know that it’s not purely a non-alcoholic beer and non-alcoholic mocktail.

KIM: Drinking, to me, is very social. And I might put the habit into maybe two buckets. So, there’s a celebration, it’s a wedding, someone got promoted, it’s a holiday. And then there’s the drinking you might do at home. You have friends over to watch sports, or having a glass of wine or beer with dinner, or maybe an apéritif after dinner. When we’re trying to drink less and support our health goals, whatever they may be, what are good examples of everyday mocktails we can feel good about having? And what are the ones that we should be maybe reserving for special occasions?

DR. AYYAD: Yeah. So, I recently went to a wedding, maybe July, August of this year. And they usually have like -- I don’t even know what you call it. The wedding drink or the special of the event.

KIM: Oh yeah, that’s usually, like, named -- there’s one named after the bride, and one named after --

DR. AYYAD: Absolutely.

KIM: Yeah.

DR. AYYAD: So, at this wedding, they had an alcoholic drink name, and they had a mocktail one. So, that one, I asked the bartender, I was like, “Hey, what’s in this?” And it turned out to be a sugary based fluid that you use just like they made their own cocktail, like mocktail base. But then they’re adding, like, vanilla syrup. They’re adding -- I can’t even remember it. It was maybe like a mint type syrup. And those all added up. So, those are the ones, yeah, if you’re at a wedding, if you’re at a party, if you’re at an occasion, sure, grab one. Enjoy it, sip on it. But this is where I would put that limit. I wouldn’t necessarily have a second, and a third, and a fourth because it’s not conducive to health goals if you’re thinking, “Hey, this is better for me. I’m gonna have as many as I want.” Versus if you’re making something at home and you grab some sparkling waters, and there’s a lot of flavors out there at this point. Even if like the greatest grocery store, H-E-B in Texas. They have their own brands, they have LaCroix, they have different brands where it could be ten calories for the whole can, minimal sugar. And it ranges from grapefruit to lime to mango. So, if you’re using that as a base, you’re already getting a flavor and you’re not getting many calories. If you wanted to add a little bit, you can get a low or low-sugar syrups. You can use the herbs like we were talking about earlier. Those are the type of mocktails where I’d say, “Hey, it’s at home, it’s a Wednesday night, maybe you had a bad day, maybe you enjoy these. I’m not opposed to you having multiple,” because again, at the end of the day, 30,40 calorie drink, it’s hydrating, you’re getting water in your system, most people don’t get enough water, so it’s a fun way to increase your fluids versus that wedding drink. So, you’ll see the difference. Like how much sugar are we adding? How much syrup are we adding into this? And that’s, kind of, where it dictates that quantity. It’s almost like the dose makes the poison. So, if the dose is low calorie, low sugar, you can have more. And it’s similar to alcohol. Like, there’s alcoholic beverages that are lower sugar. You’re not adding too much. So, think margarita versus, I don’t know, vodka soda. You could essentially have more vodka sodas, less calories than having as many margaritas just because of the sugar content. So, same applies when it comes to a mocktail and how you’re preparing it versus it being served at a restaurant, being served at a wedding. Usually, the ones erved out, they want you to get more ‘cause it’s gonna be tastier, it’s gonna be sweeter. So, those are the ones to limit, to watch out for, versus you knowing exactly what you’re putting in a drink that you’re making at home yourself.

[Music to signal a brief interjection in the interview]

KIM: After the break, get more tips about drinking mindfully.

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[Sound effect signals return to the interview]

KIM: We’ve been talking a lot about non-alcoholic drinks and mocktails, beer, you name it. but for those of us, ‘cause I count myself among them who enjoy drinking, not to excess but just, you know, I like to cook, and so that’s kind of how I like to enjoy it. So, I’ll use a bottle of wine to cook with and then that’s what I pair with the meal. So, I just open one bottle, it’s going into the food, and then you know, you have a glass with it and that’s pretty much it. I love doing that. But I also know it’s like a double-edged sword, right? That I know that alcohol consumption is not always the best thing for us. So, what advice would you give someone to approach drinking more mindfully?

DR. AYYAD: Yeah. I’d say you’re being mindful of using the same bottle to drink and cook from. Most people have a bottle to drink and a bottle to cook with, so. To put this out there, like, there’s a lot of influencers and articles that are like, “Hey, a glass of red wine promotes heart health.” Or, “If you drink this, you’re more likely to have less of this.” So, just a blanket statement, like no amount of alcohol is good for us. Our body doesn’t use it for anything, there’s no nutritional value, it puts a lot of havoc on our kidneys, on our gut, we would have to filter through it, and get rid of it, it dehydrates us so that’s first and foremost. Like to debunk all of that, there is no certain amount of alcohol that I would say is positive for us. But as you say, we’re human, we like to enjoy drinks. We go to occasions, we like to cook and have a glass of wine while we’re doing it. So, when I think of being mindful of it, most patients and clients that come through, I would say, “Hey, first let’s meet you where you’re at.” Because my goal to anyone is having three beverages a week if you enjoy beverages. But if someone is like, “Hey, I have 15 a week.” And I’m like, “Hey, let’s go to three.” They’re not gonna do it. They’re not gonna walk out of here and instantly reduce 12 drinks out of their week. So, if they’re staring at a high level, we’re just gonna do, like, small, short-term goals. Hey, can we cut out two drinks? Can we start incorporating some mocktails instead of cocktails to reduce that 15? But if someone’s like, “Hey, I just wanna know what’s a good average number to consume so I can relatively continue my health goals.” Yeah, usually three. And the way that equates, I’m like hey, every few days have a beverage, enjoy it, and it’s not really causing any detriment to you as long as you’re practicing all the other health goals. Hey, get your water in, let’s get our fruits and vegetables. Let’s be kind to our body because alcohol is not so kind to our body. So, let’s help it, let’s give it some boosters. For official guidelines, like the CDC recommends two drinks for men a day, or no more than two drinks. And no more than one drink for females a day. But that equates to, what? Fourteen drinks a week for males, seven drinks a week for females. Personally, as a dietitian, like I think that’s too much. I think if you’re drinking 14 drinks every single week, it’s gonna cause some problems later on, especially as we get older, as we slow down, as we become less physically active. I think maybe three is of an extreme, but again, it’s just the dietetic background. But even if you’re able to limit it, instead of two per day, you go down to one a day, and then you go down to every other day, and you sprinkle in some mocktails, it’s just about the reduction, really. But an overall goal, I would say three to four a week gives us that pleasure that we’re looking for without it becoming like a binge drinking problem, and without having detrimental health benefits. And I’d probably put the same guideline or limitation on mocktails that are higher in sugar, that are higher in calories. Let’s try to limit it. We can go enjoy them, we can be social, we can have them, but can we limit it to three to four a week to make sure we’re not overdoing it on empty calories just through the drinks that we’re consuming. So, that would probably be advice. Like, first and foremost, none of it is good for us. Let’s not be convinced otherwise. But we are human and we wanna enjoy it so let’s enjoy it moderately, which means every few days we can have a beverage, we can have a couple of beverages but it’s not a daily thing. We give our bodies some time to rest, we give our bodies some time to recover and filter through all that, and we should be okay that way.

KIM: So, a follow up question to that, you know, hearing three a week, that doesn’t mean that we’re having those three when we’re watching football on Sundays, right?

DR. AYYAD: I mean, it depends. Like, if it’s Super Bowl Sunday or Super Bowl, sure. Like, have your three drinks, let’s move on. But maybe in that week, I’m not gonna have more, I’m gonna have less because I knew hey, that Sunday, I kind of overdid it. But ideally, yeah, I think you’re right. Ideally, I don’t wanna have all three in one day, like. Again, it’s an overload. It’s an overdose of alcohol all at once. Especially if you’ve gotten into the good habit of reducing it and then all of a sudden, “You know what? I’m gonna have three today.” And then come next weekend, you’re like, “It wasn’t so bad, I’ll have three more this weekend.” And then the habit starts over again. So yes, ideally, I would break them apart. Every few days, I’d have one rather than lumping it all together. And that reminds me of, like, food in general. Like, we can stay really healthy Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, Thursday, but then comes Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday. And we pack all the food that we wanna eat in those three days, and it’s almost like it negates everything we did at the beginning of the week. So, I would, kind of, view it the same way. If you’re overdrinking on the weekend and then saying, “Nothing -- I’m not gonna have anything on the weekdays,” you know?

KIM: Yeah, so those school day abstinence drinkers probably need to be more mindful about what’s going on on their weekends.

DR. AYYAD: For sure. And sometimes you’re like -- you mentioned it yourself, you like to destress while you’re cooking, and you have a glass, and maybe that stressed parent during the weeknights, maybe a glass of wine on a Wednesday would help them not overdo it on the weekend. So, I also -- I oppose that to patients and clients that are like, “I’m trying not to have anything during the week.” And I’m like, “What if you did have something? Is it gonna make you have less on the weekend? Because I would call it a success.” So, yes, I would say it’s all about the person, their schedule, where they’re at when it comes to intake. But if we can find ways to separate the times we’re drinking, it’s always better than just binge drinking for one specific day.

KIM: Thank you. This has been really informative. But I do have a final question in that, what is your favorite mocktail?

DR. AYYAD: Oh. I don’t know. I don’t go to mocktails.

[Laughter]

Even talking through all these health benefits. Like, if I’m gonna enjoy -- like, I’m not a big drinker. I do enjoy a beverage, but if I’m gonna have a cocktail, I’m gonna have a cocktail. Like, I don’t necessarily go towards a mocktail. That being said, my favorite mocktail is called a Mezcal Last Word. And you’re basically mixing four different things: Luxardo, lime, Green Chartreuse, and Mezcal. So, if I was to do that in a mocktail form, we’re taking the Mezcal out. And there’s very little alcohol intake in the Luxardo and the Green Chartreuse. So, I would probably just fill the Mezcal with, I don’t know, a little bit of sparkling water or just regular water. And you’d probably get the same flavors, but I took out the alcohol content.

KIM: This has been very informative for me. Like I said, I don’t drink a whole lot, but I do enjoy drinking, so. But the idea of having a seltzer and maybe zhuzhing up my drinks that I use for hydration does sound like a really good idea. So, I feel like that was a big takeaway for me. So, thank you so much for this conversation, it’s been really great.

DR. AYYAD: Yeah, awesome. Glad to be on board. And as all the commercials, we’ll end with enjoy whether non-alcoholic or alcoholic, enjoy it responsibly.

[Sound effect signaling end of interview]

ZACH: Okay Kim, well Mag answered our question from the top. Mocktail’s no healthier than alcohol, healthy being a relative word.

KIM: Yes, I think that’s all relative is really what the big takeaway for me was, it’s all about moderation, right? So, if you’re drinking a six-pack of non-alcoholic beer, sure, you’re not going to get the probably terrible effects if -- that you would have of drinking a six-pack of alcoholic beer. But you’re still, kind of, drinking empty calories, and you are maybe doing something that isn’t lining up with your personal health goals.

ZACH: Yeah, because yes, it is less unhealthy, right? But it’s not, “Well, I can drink as many of these as I want because it’s non-alcoholic.” That is the wrong mindset to have when it comes to mocktails.

KIM: Yeah, I think that’s -- we’re all human, and I think that what was so interesting is that if you take the alcohol out of the beverage, you think, “Well, I can just go whole hog on this.” And it’s simply not true.  So, whether or not you’re drinking alcohol, you still have to think about it. And I liked how he said, you know, let’s try to think of it as three drinks per week. And that’s limiting it to mocktails and if you’re drinking alcohol. Just three drinks a week. And I liked that he said if you did it all at once, you know, that’s not great, but you can make up for it later by, you know, being better.

ZACH: Yeah. I mean, the three a week, I’m like, “Well, I guess that means I’m gonna drink once a week.”

[Laughter]

That’s how I’m gonna take it.

[Laughter]

KIM: I think it’s imperfect, but I think going easy on ourselves, and I think that’s really the process with approaching mindful drinking. If you’re drinking less, like he said, if you were drinking 12 drinks a week, cutting back on that and slowly, over time, you’re going to see the benefits of it. And, you know, I am from Kentucky, and I grew up in a very much a drinking culture…

ZACH: Hmm.

KIM: And so, it’s not the greatest thing to hear, but you know, I think taking steps to modify our behaviors when we can is really the way to go.

ZACH: Yeah. You know, I would say that then it comes to, you know, mocktails and just thinking about my favorite reference is you know alcoholic drinks, but they’ll taste sweeter. ‘Cause mocktails traditionally, like, oh they taste sweeter and that sorta thing, right? But then that’s a little more dangerous ‘cause you’re like, “Oh yeah, like, I’m gonna keep drinking.” Like if you -- if you have a glass of bourbon or something, you’re gonna milk that ‘cause you’re not gonna just be drinking 12 of those all night, right? But if something tastes really good like a -- just a fruit flavored beverage, then you know taste wise, you’ll be more prone to just keep drinking those. And then, you know, that’s -- you’re gonna have the sugar content, all that stuff you guys talked about. So just something to be aware of.

KIM: Yeah. Well, and I think the sugar content of drinks is a huge point because it’s the calories and the sugar that’s really going to get you when you’re having mocktails.

ZACH: Mhm. Mag doesn’t drink mocktails, that was a funny way to end your conversation.

KIM: Well, but I felt like it was really honest because I think, and it goes back to that moderation, right? I live to have my bourbon sometimes, and if that means just having a single glass of bourbon, and that’s what I have as my drink for the week, that’s okay. You know, trying to make a drink that would be less satisfying for me in place of that bourbon, it’s not the choice, you know? And that’s okay to be human.

ZACH: Yeah. And everybody’s gonna have their different, you know, responses to that sort of thing too, so.

KIM: Of course.

ZACH: Like we talked about, all these health topics we talk about. Just, you know, cater to where you are, whatever adjustments you need to make. As long as you’re moving in the right direction, you’re doing the right thing.

KIM: Yeah.

ZACH: Alright, that’s gonna do it for this episode of On Health with Houston Methodist. Be sure to share, like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We drop episodes Tuesday mornings, so until next time, stay tuned and stay healthy.