PODCAST: The Mediterranean Diet Is More Than a Diet, It's a Lifestyle

ZACH MOORE: Welcome to On Health with Houston Methodist. I'm Zach Moore. I'm a photographer and editor here, and I'm also a longtime podcaster.

KATIE MCCALLUM: I’m Katie McCallum. Former researcher, turned health writer, mostly writing for our blogs.

ZACH: And, Katie, if there’s one thing that we’ve heard more than anything else on this podcast, it’s the Mediterranean Diet.

KATIE: That’s true.

ZACH: It has been recommended to us all the time.

KATIE: Yeah. Pretty much anytime eating healthy gets mentioned, or just eating, not even healthy, just eating in a way that’s not negative. The first thing that comes out of someone’s mouth is, you know, “If you had to pick something, do the Mediterranean diet.”

ZACH: Mm-hmm. Which is appealing to me because I do like Mediterranean food, right?

KATIE: Mm. Yeah.

ZACH: But I’ve never really sat down and said, “You know what, I’m gonna do the Mediterranean diet.” So, in my head I’m like, “I don't know, is it gyros? What is that?” Right. But it --

[Laughing]

KATIE: Yeah.

ZACH: Have you tried it?

KATIE: I had not really heard of it too much before I started, you know, writing about it more. And, you know, we’ve obviously heard about a lot in the podcast sense. I’ve tried it, I wouldn’t say, like, wholeheartedly. I think it’s, like, it’s a bit tough to wrap your head around especially, like, here in America.

ZACH: Mm-hmm.

KATIE: And because the way we talk about it here is very -- it comes off as very, like, it’s almost like a vegetarian diet. I think my first thought was like, “Oh, it’s like a vegetarian diet. No, thanks.” But I have since learned that it’s very different than that. I have tried it. I mean, I eat close to a Mediterranean diet now. But this has been going on with me for, like, four years of hearing about it from all of our experts. And finally, I’m like, “Alright. Yeah. That might be for me.” I mean, I don’t stick that close to it though. It’s tough.

ZACH: It is tough. And then, with all these diets, right? -- It’s like, even the word diet makes it sound like, “Ehh.”

KATIE: Yeah. Well, I think it’s exactly that. I think the first times I would hear about it, I’m like, “I don’t really need a diet. I eat pretty decently,” or so I thought. But then when you -- and then too, when you hear the word diet, like you said, and you’re like, “Okay, weight loss,” which really isn’t even what the Mediterranean diet is about.

ZACH: Right.

KATIE: And then, also, when you hear the key principles of it, you kind of start to reevaluate, like, “Ah, maybe I don’t eat this healthy as I thought I did.”

ZACH: Right.

KATIE: So, that was -- that was my experience at least. And so, you have not tried it?

ZACH: Not officially.

KATIE: Okay. What is your di -- How would you describe your diet?

ZACH: Oh, I’m getting put on the spot here.

KATIE: Yeah.

ZACH: I’m not currently practicing a specific diet. What I am trying to do right now, eliminating a lot of, you know, soft drinks, sugary things, drinking mostly water. That’s kind of my, like, default right now. I mean, on special occasions obviously, you drink more than just water, but, like, that’s my go to. Like, if you’re going somewhere, drink water, or you drink tea, or something like that. You don’t go for the soft drink or fill in the blank whatever unhealthy beverage you wanna fill in the blank with there. Trying to tone down on those. And then also, I was pescatarian for a time a few years ago, and I was actually -- That was like the healthiest I was, when I was being a pescatarian.

KATIE: Yeah.

ZACH: And it just -- When you have some sort of, kind of like, guidelines in your head, it helps. Because if you’re just gonna, “Well, yeah. I’m gonna get a burger,” or whatever, that adds up. Then if you turn around and calculate how many burgers and fries you got over a month, it’s like, oh wow, how many days are there in a month, 30?

KATIE: Yeah.

ZACH: And 20 of those days, maybe for lunch or dinner, or some combination, you got something like that.

KATIE: That does sound like a lot of burgers.

ZACH: Right?

KATIE: Yeah.

ZACH: Yeah. Not part of the Mediterranean diet. Is it?

KATIE: Yeah. Well, I don’t know. We’ll find out.

ZACH: We will find out. So, who do we talk to about the Mediterranean diet, Katie?

KATIE: We talk to Lea Obeid. She is a registered dietician here at Houston Methodist and she breaks down what the diet is, why we should maybe switch to it. And then, we also really get into, the part I love about our conversation, is we really get into how to make it work for you in your life, and, like, how to get started. I think that’s the big hang up a lot of people have.

[sound effect plays to signal beginning of interview]

KATIE: All right, well, I’m super excited to talk to you today. Like most dietitians, you probably talk about the Mediterranean diet I’d say fairly frequently. Is that correct?

LEA OBEID: Yeah.

KATIE: Yeah. I kind of figured. We have been hearing about it on our podcast frequently. Zach and I have been joking that we need to do an episode on the Mediterranean diet probably since season one. We’re in season six now. Because every couple of episodes, a doctor will say, “Hey, the best way to manage this condition you have is to eat a Mediterranean diet.”

[laughter]

But I am excited to talk to you in particular because the Mediterranean diet is more than, “a diet” for you, right? You’re -- The Mediterranean is home for you.

LEA: Definitely. Yeah. I’m from the Middle East, so I practically was born there and grew up there for, like, 21 years.

KATIE: Okay.

LEA: So, it’s, like, part of my life.

[laughing]

KATIE: Right. Yes. It’s part of your life. So, we’re hearing it straight from, you know, like, it’s actually your lifestyle.

LEA: Yes.

KATIE: I love that. I love that. First question I wanna ask you is, you know, what is the Mediterranean diet in your own words? Because I know a lot of us hear the word diet and we immediately think, like, “Oh gosh. Add it to the list of another, you know, way to lose weight. And, you know, I’m not gonna be allowed to eat certain foods.” So, like, what is this? So, when you’re talking about the diet, how do you describe it?

LEA: So, I, more of, like, consider it as a lifestyle more than a diet for several reasons here. So, in the Mediterranean lifestyle or diet, there is no foods that are kind of to be avoided or eliminated, or -- Like, every food fits. Which is -- this is one of the things that come to my mind when I think of the Mediterranean lifestyle or Mediterranean diet, so as -- every food fits. And one big word also is moderation.

[laughter]

KATIE: Ah. I was gonna say, you had me at, “every food fits.”

[laughing]

LEA: In moderation, of course.

[laughing]

KATIE: Gotcha, yeah.

LEA: And so, if we’re talking about the different types of grains, protein, healthy fats, red meat, any kind of food components, everything fits, right? But it’s how frequently you’re having it in the week and how much you’re having it in that specific serving, that specific meal or snack, that makes the whole difference. So, the Mediterranean diet, per say, is having a bit of everything. It’s also a variety of different things. So, mainly, several different types of proteins, several different types of grains, various different fruits and vegetables. It’s all that variety, and options, and just adding in different things in your day to day, that makes it kind of different.

KATIE: Gotcha. And I think, correct me if I’m wrong, but a key principle is these different things are probably not processed foods, they’re whole foods.

LEA: Yes. So, if we were to, like, highlight some key principles for the Mediterranean diet or Mediterranean lifestyle, we can go over, like, a list of different things here. And so, starting off with the grains, right? So, we’re talking about, let’s say, mixing between quinoa, wild rice, regular rice, oats for breakfast, for example. If we’re talking about mainly proteins, we are mainly referring to the leaner sides of protein rather than the more processed ones. And, also, one huge thing when it comes to protein specifically, is the plant-based proteins when it comes to the Mediterranean lifestyle. And so, focusing more on all the different types of beans, whether it’s the black beans, red kidney beans, black eyed peas, chickpeas, lima beans. Whatever kind of lean protein, that’s a huge aspect of it. And so, having those different beans several times a week, so three to four times a week, for example. And then, keeping, let’s say, grilled chicken breast, going for the whiter sides of meats rather than darker sides of meats. Again, that’s another way where you would focus on the leaner sides of, like, less processed, if that makes sense also.

KATIE: Yeah.

LEA: And then, also, going -- Like, specifically talking about the Mediterranean way of living, we definitely focus on fresh fruits and fresh vegetables. And we usually focus a lot also on seasonal fruits and seasonal vegetables. And sometimes we would only have fruits, only because it’s the season right now and that’s about it. So, like, for example, there would be a few fruits where you wouldn’t eat them of it’s, like, maybe December or January. So, that’s kind of some key principles. Specifically, also, like, for example, red meat, again, it’s not, like, avoiding at all costs, right? Here, again, it’s moderation and so, having it once or twice per week. As well as the healthy fats, that’s another major thing that I wanted to also highlight as a key principle in the Mediterranean lifestyle. So, healthy fats, this is also a huge thing. So, our main four, if you wanna consider them go-tos when it comes to healthy fats, it’s mainly nuts and seeds, avocados, and, like, olive oil as a major component here in the healthy fats. So, again, more of the, like, non-processed and whole foods.

KATIE: Yeah. I’m glad you mentioned meat, because I think of lot of people hear Mediterranean diet these days and they think plant-based and then they think, “Oh, I can’t have meat.” So, we’re kinda dispelling that myth right away. So, can have meat, just in smaller amounts maybe than other things, or less frequently.

LEA: Yes, definitely. So, I like to think of it as, like, a week-by-week thing.

KATIE: Mm-hmm.

LEA: And so, I like to think of it as -- Okay, so for this week we have several meals, several snacks, right? And so, thinking of our protein intake on each of those meals, at least having three or four out of all the different meals that we’re gonna have this week coming from plant-based or like beans, lentils. And then, three or four, or maybe two to three coming from chicken or turkey. And then, we can also do red meat here. So, once or twice per week of red meat. And then, you can also go for eggs once or twice, or maybe even more if you, like, love eggs. So, definitely, again, like, this is how you would, like, vary different food items in that week and you would be having a bit of everything and in moderation.

KATIE: I like the -- Yeah, I like the week-to-week mentality. I think it kind of makes it less -- Sometimes when I’m thinking about, you know, I try to eat, you know, a Mediterranean diet. It’s a little hard, but I do like this week-to-week thought. Because sometimes what I’m thinking about in the day, I get tripped up on certain meals and then I’m like, “Oh, man, I already ruined it.” So, I kinda just, like, I’m off the train right away, and I kinda give up. So, I like the week-to-week idea.

LEA: No, definitely. And, also, another thing is, like, each meal and each snack is a chance for you to incorporate something new, right? Like, even though you didn’t really have the lunch that you wanted basically, it’s okay. There’s dinner coming up so you can, like, then be a bit more mindful for your upcoming meal. Or if it’s dinner, then the next day. It’s okay.

KATIE: Yeah.

[Laughter]

I -- One thing I’ve really gotten into are nuts. From Costco, you can buy, like, the unsalted, like, premium mixed nuts in bulk. And I’m obsessed to the point where, like, it might not be in moderation anymore.

[Laughing]

That’s like the hard part. Like, I was joking, but, like, I never would have thought -- It took me so long to be like, “Oh, yeah. Nuts as a snack instead of, like, a bag of hot fries.” Whereas now I’m, like, I actually do look forward to it, but then I’m like, “Ooh, I might eat too many now.”

[Laughter]

LEA: Definitely, you can, like, snack on nuts so easily.

KATIE: Oh yeah.

LEA: And honestly, there’s such a wide variety of different things out there. You can have different nuts every single day. But again, like, moderation is the thing. They are a very good source of Omega-6 and Omega-3. They do have, also, slightly higher protein content compared to other healthy fats. Like, if you were to compare, for example, olive oil, let’s say it’s -- So, they are on the higher side of like, protein.

KATIE: Okay.

LEA: There are some nuts also that they do have, if I’m not mistaken, in a quarter of a cup you do have like 10, 9, around 8 grams of protein sometimes, so that’s like a decent amount.

KATIE: Yeah.

LEA: But they do also go under the category of, like, calorie dense foods, so that’s a lot.

KATIE: Yeah, they’re delicious, so that makes sense. One thing I wanted to ask you that I was sitting -- I was thinking about as I was sitting here, when you -- when you moved here, did you find it was hard to eat a Mediterranean diet? And I guess I should say, would you -- did you find it hard to carry out your Mediterranean lifestyle here in the U.S.?

LEA: To be very honest with you, yes, it was a bit harder for me which I never thought that would be something I needed to focus a bit more on it. And, like, back home, I was a bit more carefree, if that makes sense.

KATIE: Yeah.

LEA: One of the huge things is, like, the portion sizes here. So, like, even though we went, let’s say for dinner or for lunch, the portion that I would, like, have is maybe double what I was used to.

[Laughing]

KATIE: Okay. So, double is a big number so --

LEA: Or maybe 1.5 times to more --

[Laughter]

KATIE: That is still large. Yeah.

[Laughter]

LEA: So, yeah, like, this is one thing that I had to kind of adjust to. But other than that, of course, here in Houston, actually, there are a lot of Lebanese foods or Mediterranean restaurants where you can definitely find, like, authentic foods. Which is something that I found very nice if we ever needed to go out and, like, enjoy some nice, maybe, kebabs or something. You could definitely find, like, very close to home type of taste which is also nice.

KATIE: Yeah. Truly one of the biggest perks about Houston. We’re sitting here in the middle of summer and it’s already very hot. And I have to remind myself sometimes that at least, you know, the cultural food options here are great. Then I -- Imagine it does help with stuff like this where you’re trying to -- We should probably be eating almost anything but American food, I would almost say. And I think that’s, like, where we go the most wrong. I had a burger and fries yesterday, for instance.

LEA: Me too.

KATIE: Alright. Cool.

[Laughter]

Alright, I was gonna say, probably not, you know, a principle of the Mediterranean diet. But, you know, as my, like, little treat for day.

LEA: Yeah.

KATIE: And it was delicious.

LEA: Definitely. That’s also where, like, all foods fit. And, like, definitely, once in a while, you can definitely enjoy a burger with some fries. And that’s also what’s kind of nice.

KATIE: Okay, cool. I also -- another thing I wanted to ask you about is olive oil. Because I think that’s the one -- that’s the one thing that when I first started talking to you and others about the Mediterranean diet, olive oil is the thing that I, you know, I would hear like, “Hey, just swap, you know, swap butter for olive oil.” And like, yeah, I was like -- At first, I was like, “Okay, well, it’s not gonna taste as good.” But then I started doing it and, I mean, I don’t even know if it tastes as good ‘cause you just don’t notice it.

LEA: Yeah.

KATIE: Like, for instance, I was making some risotto a few weeks ago, and the recipe calls for, like, some butter, and I was just like, “Why?” And I didn’t put it. And it was still delicious, ‘cause, well, you know, risotto is delicious.

LEA: Yeah.

KATIE: It’s just funny how that stuff adds up. So, is that how you think about olive oil too? I mean, I’m intrigued by it, because it’s so delicious as it is.

LEA: Yeah. No, it’s definitely so. For olive oil, we usually enjoy it as, like, more of a raw, if that makes kind of sense. So, we kind of use it either in a salad dressing, or, like, when the dish is done, we, like, sprinkle it with, like, some olive oil. I’d like to go a bit more, like, technical on the olive oil.

KATIE: Yeah. Yeah.

LEA: And if we were to break it down into simpler compounds, two major things that it would be kind of made up of would be, first of all, the fatty acid aspect of it, which specifically it’s the monounsaturated fatty acids. I’m going into this much detail just because I wanted to highlight that this type of unsaturated fat is the one that has been shown to benefit our heart health the most slightly -- if you want to think of it slightly more than the polyunsaturated fatty acids. And so, in most olive oils, the monounsaturated fatty acids make up 70% to 80% of it. And then, like, the second compound or the second part of that olive oil is actually, its antioxidant profile which is specifically vitamin E and polyphenols. And so, like, thinking of it as in a more general view looking at it it’s like, alright, so, it’s made up of monounsaturated fatty acids and antioxidants. Which antioxidants, per say, helps us fight inflammation and decrease inflammation in our body. So, this is how it would be very beneficial. Now, even though olive oil has all those health benefits, it’s essential to use it in moderation as well. So, like, all oils, it’s still, also, just like -- It goes on through the same category of nuts, like we were saying earlier. So, it still goes under the calorie dense food. And so, I would definitely encourage to have, like, a minimum and a maximum type of thing.

KATIE: Okay.

LEA: And a nice way to also think of it as a day to day think or maybe weekly, like, if, let’s say, one of your meals definitely had some olive oil or if you had some hummus and added some olive oil on top, then maybe you would leave, like, this snacks of nuts for the next day or so, because you already enjoyed, like, part of the healthy fats. And then keeping, like, something else, or maybe having just a small handful, or, like, slightly less than the usual.

[Music to signal a brief interjection in the interview]

ZACH: Lea mentioned the Mediterranean diet’s impact on heart health. If you’ve listened to our other episodes, you’ll already know that the benefits don’t stop there. It’s proven to lower the risk of developing several health conditions including heart disease, type two diabetes, stroke, cancer, and more. It can also improve blood sugar and cholesterol levels, and perhaps, even cognition in older adults. These issues aren’t trivial. They are some of the most common chronic health conditions affecting Americans today. Reason enough to take Lea’s advice and tips for following a Mediterranean lifestyle to heart.

[Music plays to signal resumption of interview]

KATIE: I think when anyone hears the word “diet” the next thing they think about is weight loss. So, what -- you know, when it comes to the Mediterranean diet, should people be expecting weight loss from it? Is that possible? I’ve heard some people say when they’ve switched to a Mediterranean diet they’ve lost, you know, 20, and 30, 40 pounds. Is that common?

LEA: Mm-hmm. So, I believe that a person could definitely achieve weight loss when they are in the Mediterranean lifestyle or Mediterranean diet. Actually, a very interesting study that I read previously was they had two different groups. The first group was on the Mediterranean diet, and the second group was following a low-fat diet. And surprisingly, maybe, the group that was following the Mediterranean lifestyle or diet showed a greater reduction in weight loss compared to the low fat. And I just believe that it might be because of the, like, wholesome approach that the Mediterranean lifestyle has. Because it not only focuses on, like, one specific thing, right? It’s not specifically, for example, low in sodium, or it’s not specifically low in added sugars. It’s, like, it’s taking everything all at once and, like, making it all into one lifestyle or one diet. The fiber content coming from all the different fresh veggies, from the fruit, and from the whole grain which creates more satiety in a person. So, generally having a meal that is higher in fiber, whether it’s from the veggies, or whether it’s from a grain, or maybe adding a bit of fruit to it, like adding maybe some strawberries on your salad for example. So, that greater or, like, higher amount of fiber will help a person feel a bit more full after a meal. And so, increasing satiety after a meal would be a good way to help achieve weight loss goal. Another thing is, like, more so going for the unsaturated fats rather than the saturated fats. Another thing that I haven’t mentioned yet is going for the low-fat products when it comes to dairy.

KATIE: Mm-hmm.

LEA: So, maybe going for the 2% milk or 1% because it’s lower in the fat content. And so, this is, again, like, it’s all those different things that are put together that would benefit a person on many different levels, whether it’s the heart health, whether it's type two diabetes, whether it’s weight loss.

[Music to signal a brief interjection in the interview]

KATIE: Up after the break, Lea gives us tips on how to start a Mediterranean diet and make it work in your own life.

[Music]

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[Music to signal resumption of interview]

KATIE: We’ve talked about why, why do it, what it is. I think probably some of the hardest part and we’ve already alluded to this, when you moved here, you found it was harder to follow the Mediterranean lifestyle. I think it’s also hard for, like, someone like me who’s had -- who’s eaten the standard American diet for, I don’t know, probably, like, 35 years of my life.

[Laughter]

And then, kind of -- I’m brought to the realization that, “Hey, maybe I should try to switch my -- the way I’m eating.” I wanna talk about how to do it, like how can someone actually take everything we’ve talked about so far and then turn it into, like, an action plan? Whether that’s today, tomorrow, couple months from now after they’re done with all their vacationing.

[Laughter]

And like, actually, start implementing these practices. A big thing that I wanted to talk to you about were plant proteins. And you sort of already talked about them, but I think that’s the biggest hang up that I’ve always -- I had and I’ve heard other people have had. People just don’t think they can get enough protein if they’re not eating meat. Like, I think, or if you’re saying, “Hey, only eat red meat one to two times a week.” Everyone is like, “Oh, how am I gonna get enough protein?”

[Laughter]

See, I just -- if we could talk -- can you just talk to us a little bit more about why protein is so much more than just a steak, a burger, a piece of chicken?

LEA: Definitely. So, if we were to, like, break it down into servings, right? So, one serving of protein contains 7 grams, right? If we were to look specifically at our plant-based proteins in half a cup of lentils, we do have around 9 grams of protein. So, this is even higher than the regular serving. And then, most of the beans do contain more protein per serving. And so, this is where, like, if we were to take one cup of lentils and then we had a grain that’s more of a whole grain, so it would also contain slightly more protein than, like, a simple carbohydrate. And so, let’s say it has 3 or 4 grams of protein for that serving. So, having maybe as low as one cup of cooked beans, that would be maybe roughly around 20 grams, or 18 grams let’s say. And then, adding two servings of that other grain that has, let’s say 3 grams that’s already adding to that 6 grams. So, that’s around 26 gram in one meal which is, I believe, a decent amount of protein in one meal.

KATIE: Yeah. I think a lot of people who care about getting protein, it seems like they’re sometimes getting like too much. Like, I know some people who weight lift and things like that and they’re like, you know, “I gotta get my protein.” And so, at some point when they tell me, like, how much protein a day they’re getting, I’m like, “Wow. That’s so much more than I’m getting.”

[Laughter]

LEA: Definitely, I feel like I’ve heard this a lot also, like, going a bit overboard on their protein just to make sure they’re having enough. Honestly, like, again, moderation is also a great thing that goes in here also. Because having too, too, much of protein wouldn’t be beneficial to your body as it would be as just having what your body actually, like, needs. Because all the excess protein will be excreted.

KATIE: Yeah. Gotcha. So, you’re just -- Yeah, you’re wasting it anyways at that point.

LEA: Kinda, yeah.

KATIE: So, in your example, are yo -- are you thinking like you could pair, like, lentils and quinoa or something, and that’s like a bunch of protein for a meal or --

LEA: So, it’s funny you mentioned this because we have a recipe or, like, dish back home that’s mainly, it’s kind of rice and lentils That’s about  -- That’s, like, that’s the dish. So, if you were to add maybe, like, half a cup of white rice with half a cup of wild rice, and then three quarters of a cup of lentils, and then mix this together. And we usually add a bit of olive oil when it’s done and some spices. And then, also, caramelize some onions on the side. And then, like, mix it all together and with a side, either of roasted veggies or a fresh salad. So, basically, yeah, that could be definitely one way to incorporate, like, a grain and a bean together, or some hummus also.

[Laughing]

KATIE: Yeah, absolutely. So, what are some other kinds of examples of what you just said where, I think, one thing that I -- where I think I have kind of gotten tripped up is like how to put together meals when they’re, you know -- when you don’t have meat. I think here we -- everything centers around, like, the meat on the dish. So, like, do you have any other kind of like combinations that you recommend that people probably don’t often think of that they could try? And they’re still getting all their protein. They’re still getting some -- you know, they’re getting some vegetables. They’re getting everything they need.

LEA: Yeah. So, another thing that I can think of right now is tofu as being one of -- maybe it’s a bit controversial or if some people hear tofu they’re like, “I can’t stand that.”

KATIE: Yeah.

LEA: But interesting way to cook tofu could be getting, like, the whole block of tofu and then with a fork, if you ground it just like --

KATIE: Mm-hmm. I’ve never done that.

LEA: Yeah. And so, if you ground that tofu and then you put it on the stove top and act as if it’s meat, so like, add all the spices that you add to your regular dish. And the only thing that I would say that on the stovetop it would just take slightly more time to cook because it’s mainly made up of water and so it just needs a bit more time to lose the water. But once it’s done, you can definitely have this. And honestly, after adding all the different spices, it would look like ground turkey or ground beef. And I’ve tried it. So, that’s why I’m saying this example. I’ve tried to do this with, like, a taco.

KATIE: I was about to say, I’m thinking, like, should I try some, like, crispy tofu tacos sort of thing?

LEA: Yes.

KATIE: Okay.

LEA: And so, this isn’t like -- And also, I’m think in half a cup of tofu, if I’m not mistaken, again, there is like around 10 grams of protein.

KATIE: Okay.

LEA: So, that’s also a very decent amount.

KATIE: Yeah. Okay. Cool.

[Laughter]

Yeah, it’s interesting because I think it’s, like, part of -- part of the struggle is figuring out how to, like, make meals when it’s not centered around, like, “Okay, I’m cooking chicken breast with,” and then it’s all the with that you kinda, like, never think about. Or it just seems like now it’s the opposite. You kind of maybe need to think about the whole grains, the vegetables, those things first. And then you’re like, “Yeah, sure. Maybe there’s a little bit of chicken breast or something.” But it’s not like the center of the dish necessarily.

LEA: Yeah, and you – were also asking about some swaps or things to make this lifestyle a bit more, you know -- or like how to adopt this lifestyle. And so, it could be from something you also referred to earlier like switching between using butter to using olive oil for example. That’s one thing. Another thing would be mixing in your grains, like, if you feel like you’re gonna have slightly of a hard time to fully adjust. And it doesn’t necessarily need to be like forgetting about the white rice, or white bread, or whatever that is. But at least, like thinking of it in a day like one -- at least one out of the three meals, one or two, or one meal and one snack, one of those grains coming from those meal would be a whole grain. So, it could be on your breakfast you chose to have whole grain toast, but then can definitely have white rice for lunch, for example. So, it’s kind of incorporating it where it kind of fits. Or for example, going for whole grain crackers. And this way, next time you have a snack, you would be having whole grain cracker with maybe your hummus. For example, another thing that you can also do is what’s also  something you referred to earlier is like thinking of your fruits and nuts as a snack. And this is something huge. So, I grew up my whole life, like, thinking, like, in my head, “Oh, I really want a fruit right now.” And it would be that kind of snack time.

[Laughter]

KATIE: Yeah. I have to say that’s probably not the same for me. So --

LEA: Yeah, and I totally understand that, but you can turn it into something more fun, right? So, like, I usually sometimes, get a banana, put some peanut butter on top, and, like, one small teaspoon of honey drizzling it on top. It gives that sweetness that you sometimes crave or want in the middle of the day. Or maybe going for a banana and a date to have that more of a sweetness. Or adding just some more fruits to a flavored Greek yogurt. So, and, again, Greek yogurt also is a good source of protein. Some of them might contain 15 grams. Some of them 18 grams in three-quarters of a cup. So, even if you have, like, half a cup or maybe one cup, adding to it one cup of fruit, and then maybe like a handful of nuts. And this way you would be having, you know, some Omega 3s, a good protein intake, as well as getting some antioxidants and fiber from the fruits. Another thing can -- that I can also kind of think of is, for example, when it comes to alcohol, we haven’t touched upon this yet. So, there are red wines.

KATIE: How did that end up coming up in the conversation?

[Laughter]

LEA: Switching up between maybe one of your drinks, or one day per week going for red wine for example. Not that I would be encouraging you to drink more, but again, in moderation, or, like, swapping.

KATIE: When you’re making swaps.

LEA: Yes. When you’re making swaps. If you regularly, or you usually, don’t go for that, I mean, you’d go for something else maybe a bit more sugary or something, maybe going for one glass of that, and this way you would be swapping something to another.

KATIE: It sounds so easy when I’m just sitting here talking to you having you kinda build my week for me.

[Laughter]

It’s almost like working with a dietician on a meal plan is like a helpful thing to do.

LEA: That’s what I do on a day-to-day kind of --

[Laughter]

KATIE: Exactly. It’s -- I could see why that’s very beneficial for people ‘cause I’m just sitting here like, “Wow, that sounds easier now that I’m talking to you.” I’m glad you touched -- Well, I think you kinda touched on breakfast or something you said hit my mind about breakfast, ‘cause I think that’s another hard one for me. I know you mentioned yogurt with some fruit and some nuts. I think to me that kinda sounds like breakfast. In my mind I was originally thinking, like, I love avocado toast. It’s like, it's one of my favorite things to eat. And to me, that seems like a healthy breakfast that falls in the Mediterranean diet.

LEA: Mm-hmm.

KATIE: Okay, cool.

LEA: Yeah.

KATIE: Thanks. Alright. I’ll take it.

LEA: Definitely, like if you’re taking a piece of whole grain toast, and adding half an avocado on top, and adding either one or two eggs, that’s a very, like, balanced meal where you have your healthy fats coming from avocados. Whole grain coming from your toast, so more fiber, maybe slightly more protein to that. And then one or two eggs also as a protein content is like a balanced kind of Mediterranean.

KATIE: Did you guys ever eat cereal growing up?

LEA: I grew up eating cereal.

KATIE: Okay. Are there -- So, cereal, how would -- how do you do cereals?

[Laughing]

Is it coming with an asterisk?

[Laughing]

LEA: So, no, but, like, for cereal it’s definitely something that I wouldn’t recommend to have every single day.

KATIE: Okay.

LEA: But you can definitely have it, like, once a week, or once or twice a week.

KATIE: Okay, so this is the moderation part.

LEA: Yes, exactly. And then, also, maybe being slightly more mindful on the nutrition facts label of that cereal that you have. It might be -- some cereals might have some dried fruits in it. Some might have some nuts in it. So, and then others are a bit more colorful or yummy which I totally understand that, honestly. And I wouldn’t say that you -- Like, again, like, there’s nothing to avoid or eliminate in that lifestyle. But again, it’s how much you’re having it at -- in one sitting, and how much you’re having it in a week, if that makes sense. Another way to also enjoy it is, let’s say we were talking about plant-based, beans and -- or plant-based protein, you can definitely also -- if you have lactose intolerance or don’t enjoy cow’s milk, you can definitely have it with a base of plant-based milk. So, another thing I would like to highlight here in plant-based milks is maybe going for the ones that are slightly higher in protein, because as protein, per say, helps with satiety and provides fullness. And so, going for maybe soy milk, it has around 8 grams of protein in a cup. And so, that’s already, like, a decent amount if you were to compare this to almond milk or to oat milk, which the regular ones have quite minimal amounts of protein.

KATIE: Yeah. Almost nothing.

LEA: Maybe 1 or 2 grams. But I know that there are some brands that fortify their almond milk and oat milk with some protein, so you might be able to find maybe an almond milk with 8 grams, but you need to, like, kind of search for it.

KATIE: Yeah.

LEA: But yeah, just like increasing slightly the protein content on your meal. And the only thing about cereal is, like, it’s not super filling which I totally understand also.

KATIE: Yeah.

LEA: I just remembered I sometimes used to turn it into more of a bowl. And so, when I grew up a bit more and I realized what I was eating…

[Laughter]

I just added a few fruits to it. So, I used to add, like, half a banana, with half and apple, and then a handful of nuts…

KATIE: Okay.

LEA: On my breakfast. And this is something I used to actually have. So, it’s cereal, it is, but like  -- turning it into something a bit more, like, filling and --

KATIE: Some more real foods in there.

LEA: Yeah.

[Laughing]

KATIE: There you go. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. What about snack ideas too while we’re here. I think you mentioned the banana, with some peanut butter, and drizzled with honey. Any other kind of, like, clever snack ideas?

LEA: Yes, so, for some snack ideas, something that might not be very popular is edamame. Like, honestly, I sometimes just steam a bag of edamame. And so, steaming some edamame would provide you a good protein and a carb. Another snack that I can think of -- Well, the Greek yogurt, and the fruit, and some nuts, could either be as a breakfast or as a snack. A handful of nuts and dried fruits could be something that you would go for. And honestly, something I usually share is you can keep like a bag of your favorite nuts and some dried fruits in your office and this way whenever you feel like having a small snack, it’s convenient. It’s there. They’re shelf stable and you can definitely enjoy a handful and some, like, sugary things. Also, two dates and a tablespoon of peanut butter, some popcorn is a good idea as well. It’s high in fiber.

KATIE: I love popcorn. I buy the bags of the pre-popped popcorn. It is hard not to eat the whole thing though I will say. Back to the moderation part.

LEA: Yes.

[Laughing]

KATIE: There’s, like, a particular brand that I’m thinking of where I’m like, “Man.” You wouldn’t think it would be so good ‘cause it’s not even buttered or anything. It’s just like the olive oil on it, is what they say. And it’s like not too salty ‘cause I buy the reduced salt one. So good.

LEA: Have you tried doing popcorn on the stove top?

KATIE: I have not.

[Laughter]

LEA: So, this is something I also grew up with. Which is basically, we get a pot and a bit of oil in the base, and then add the corn kernels, like, just --

KATIE: Yeah. Just -- Okay.

LEA: Yeah, just as they are.

KATIE: The old-fashioned way.

LEA: Yes, kind of.

[Laughing]

KATIE: It was fun when we were kids, because we used to hear them pop it used to make us way more excited to have popcorn.

[Laughing]

LEA: And so, you can just cover the stove and then wait for a bit. A nice thing that my grandma used to say is like, between each pop, if you can count to three, then you would know that it would be ready and you wouldn’t be burning the popcorn.

KATIE: Okay, nice. Cool.

LEA: So, yeah, that’s something also that I grew up having sometimes as a snack. And you could pair it with maybe a cheese stick to have it, you know, as a compete snack with some higher protein content, some complex carbohydrates coming from the popcorn. A cheese stick and on a -- maybe on a toast with half an avocado as well, or maybe going for another type of cheese like feta cheese, for example, with half an avocado, some hummus, and some bell peppers. If you’re the type of person who likes crunchy things, it could definitely be maybe baby carrots, or cucumbers, or celery, or bell peppers, and then dip them into some hummus, or some guac.

KATIE: I was gonna ask, where does chips and guac fall? Is that, like, kind of healthyish?

LEA: I mean, yeah, like, especially if you went for, like, a whole grain chips, that’s, you know, or it’s, you know, basically made up of -- maybe it has some seeds in it and it’s a whole grain chips. Definitely. Why not?

KATIE: Okay. Nice. I like that. So, those were all, like, great meal ideas and snack ideas. As we leave this conversation, I wanted to ask you, are there any parting tips you have for someone who, any of our listeners, who are kind of inspired by this conversation today, and they wanna get started, and they have no idea how to get started beyond what we’ve talked about today? Are there any other kind of tips you would leave someone who wants to try to start eating a Mediterranean diet? Any other tricks of the trade.

LEA: Yeah, so definitely. So, there are several ways where a person can start. And I like to break it down into, like, more of a food groups. So, the first way is thinking of your grains. Let’s say you already do whole grain, then that’s great. Then moving on to the next thing which could be protein. Are you choosing most of the times going for leaner sides of protein? Have you tried having some beans more often? Fish, that’s another thing that they wanted to also highlight. Fish is definitely a thing that we would want to include in our week. Having one or two servings of fish, it could be canned tuna, or canned sardines, or it could be salmon. It could even be some sushi once in a -- once in a while. Right? So, thinking of your proteins next and then thinking of your veggies, so vegetables. One thing I wanted to actually highlight when it comes to vegetables is there are two types of veggies, the non-starchy vegetables and the starchy.

[Laughing]

KATIE: The french fries do not count.

[Laughter]

LEA: So, yeah, the -- for the vegetables, going for, let’s say, at least having one or two cups on your lunch, or one or two cups on your dinner, and baby steps, honestly. Picking one of those three meals in the day or two meals in the day, and then adding one more cup of veggies on that -- on that meal. Or picking the leaner side of protein. Or picking on that day a mix of grains, for example. But, yeah, back to the veggies. So, the non-starchy vegetables and the starchy vegetables. An easy way to remember them is that we can, like, kind of simplify the starchy vegetables into a shorter list which is potatoes, yams, and all the different -- sweet potatoes are the starchy potatoes that go under this category. And then, we do have our corn, our peas, butternut squash, and acorn squash. And those kind of -- four starchy vegetables do go under the category of carbohydrates, when you’re kind of evaluating your meal. That’s another thing I wanted to kind of touch upon, is if you’ve heard of the My Plate. And so, having half of your plate full of non-starchy vegetables, quarter of the plate full of carbohydrates, and the other quarter full of protein. This way making sure that those veggies on that half of the plate is coming from the non-starchy vegetables or the starchy vegetables would go under the carbohydrates category.

KATIE: Right.

LEA: Doesn’t mean we’re not gonna have some, it’s just like rearranging them in our heads and then going for the non-starchy ones. And the list can go so long with the non-starchy vegetables: bell peppers, cucumber, tomatoes, mushrooms, onions, spinach, all the different types of lettuce, kale, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, all those different things. Those are our non-starchy vegetables. And so, this is also another way where we can, like, have or, like, go one step further towards the Mediterranean lifestyle is adding those veggies. And if it’s -- and if you feel like it doesn’t really fit on your meal, it’s not an issue. You can have it as a snack with some hummus, you know. If you feel like, “Well, I’m kind of full right now.  Didn’t really have much, or, like, I didn’t really have that two cups of veggies on my meal.” No problem. There’s another snack coming up soon that you can definitely enjoy some veggies on there. And, like, starting to think of fruits as a snack would ma -- I think this is on a harder level.

KATIE: Yeah.

LEA: I totally understand that. But also, like, turning it into something a bit more fun, again, like we were discussing earlier. Another food group that I was thinking of is dairy products. And so, going for the white cheeses a bit more than the yellow cheeses, so mozzarella, maybe a burrata from time to time, and some feta cheese, so those white cheeses also. And healthy fats, focusing on the unsaturated fatty acids more than the saturated fatty acids. So, I feel like a person can pick where they feel more comfortable. Or that they would like to start whether it’s the fruits, whether it’s the vegetables, whether it’s adding slightly more fish in their diet, whether it's focusing a bit more on the plant-based proteins. If this is too far, then going, like, literally just one step at a time and starting just with one thing. I wouldn’t recommend to start with, like, seven different things.

KATIE: Right. Just go full speed and just say, “I’m overhauling my diet completely tomorrow.”

[Laughter]

LEA: Definitely.

KATIE: Hold my breath, then just do it.

LEA: Yeah. Because it’s habits that you’ve had for 30, 35 years that you’re slowly going to change. And it needs some time to get used to the new ways of thinking, the taste of the food, but you will get used to it I would say.

KATIE: Yeah. No, I agree. I’ve started eating berries for dessert. And at first, I was like, “Oh man, this is gonna take forever to get used to.” But now, like, I look forward to, like, I do raspberries, strawberries, blueberries. Like, I kind of mix it up and, like, it’s good. I do think of it as dessert now. I mean, I was laughing earlier because it is -- I think it is a hard concept to introduce your mind to when we’re used to, like, chocolate cake, or something. But no, it is -- your taste buds get used it to it. You’re just kind of, like -- And then, your mind gets used to it too.

LEA: I totally agree with that.

KATIE: Yeah.

LEA: And keeping those sweets and baked goods for occasions. This is how it’s also back home, like, it’s maybe for on birthdays, on special events, when you’re celebrating something, maybe you just feel like having it. Also, just keeping a mental note in your head, “Okay, so how much did I have this week?” Or, “How much of my snacks this week were mainly baked goods or those things?” So, that you can, like -- you’re like, “Okay, maybe I’ll try something else this time.”

KATIE: Gotcha. Yeah. I like that. Okay, well, thank you so much for your time today. This was great. I already kinda tried to keep the Mediterranean diet going in my life. I feel way more empowered now. So, you know, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

LEA: Of course, it’s my pleasure and thank you for having me.

ZACH: Well, first of all, I think we should now call it the Mediterranean lifestyle, Katie?

KATIE: Yes, very true, which we like better because we did like the term diet in the beginning.

ZACH: Right, we were talking about diet, now it’s li -- it’s just there’s a mental shift when you say a lifestyle than a diet. ‘Cause a diet, even -- there’s that negative connotation sort of, even though, like, there shouldn’t be, but there is. And then it feels temporary. Right? Well, I’m gonna go on this diet for a while.

KATIE: That’s a really good point, actually. Yeah. Diets don’t seem sustainable, whereas the Mediterranean lifestyle very sustainable. So, I appreciate that she farmed it that way. I think -- I think I need that. You know, we talked about it at the top. I have been trying to eat a Mediterranean diet and I get stuck, ‘cause I’m like, “Oh, I can’t think about what meal to make now,” ‘cause I’m trying all of my meals to get them to fit in some sort of box.

ZACH: Mhmm.

KATIE: Or her point of, like, “No, it’s just a lifestyle. And think of it week to week and think of it as nutrient to nutrient.” It kind of opened it up to me to be a little more flexible and give me more freedom. I truly think that was probably the piece I was missing the most. And also, it was great having her just literally tell me what to make for meals.

ZACH: I mean, no joke, if someone handed me a sheet of, like, “Eat this at this time,” and, like, I would be more successful at these attempts and at these -- at these, well, I’mma say diets. But, you know, lifestyle changes because it’s like [Sigh]

KATIE: But, yeah, you can’t keep up with that. Like, what you’re gonna look at a sheet everyday for the rest of your life about what to eat? No, you’re not gonna do that.

[Laughter]

ZACH: See, but that’s when it becomes unsustainable.

KATIE: Exactly.

ZACH: Like the time I used these 1,700 rules you gotta follow.

KATIE: These are just the principles instead of, you know, plant proteins. Like, I think that was a big thing too that I’m glad we talked about. Is protein is more than just a stake, a burger, the 20 burgers a month. Like, there’s other ways to get protein. And in fact, you know, when she talked about the dish of rice and lentils mixed together, with the caramelized onions, and the side salad, I think a lot of us would think of that meal and think, “Okay, these are sides, where’s -- yeah, where’s the -- where’s the protein.” It’s like, “It’s right there. It’s in front of you.”

ZACH: Woah, I think we’ve all gone to Mediterranean restaurants, and you get this plate, and you just feel like, “Oh, well, there’s like -- there’s a whole lot of carrots here, and rice here, and then, you know, the me --

KATIE: A tiny kebab.

ZACH: Yeah, a tiny kebab with the lamb meat or whatever it is, right? It’s like on the same little portion of the plate everything else is. And it helps kind of equalize all that. For you to just change your mind set about it. ‘Cause, you know, I gravitated toward that part as well when you guys were talking about, the rice is like the main thing and then, like, we’ll add a little bit of chicken on the side, and you just mix that up. And it really changes your whole perception about the meal.

KATIE: And I think also, we forgot that there’s protein in things quinoa, and beans, and stuff. 

ZACH: You know, she mentioned tofu. I don’t think I’ve ever had tofu.

 

KATIE: So, I am glad that she mentioned it because I am not a big tofu fan. I’ll eat it but I don’t, like, seek it out necessary and I’m not like, “Ooh, I’m craving some tofu.” But doing the tofu, the ground tofu, as like a taco sounded very intriguing. I have not done it yet, but I’m going to do it.

ZACH: I’ve heard -- this is my understanding. I haven’t tried this so -- I might, but it’s all about the seasoning, right?

KATIE: Well , it’s like when you make ground beef tacos at home.

ZACH: Which I do a lot.

KATIE: Yeah, you use those packets, and, like, you could barely taste the meat, anyways, at that point. Like, we use ground turkey now. So, like, yeah, I could take another level and do ground tofu. I’m sure all you’re gonna taste still is just that, like, chilly seasoning and stuff like that.

ZACH: And it’s gonna add up over time, right? It’s not gonna be like, oh, and that’s the other thing to think about, right? Like, when we call it Mediterranean lifestyle, it’s not Mediterranean diet, so you’re not like, “How many pounds did I lose on the Mediterranean diet?” That’s not the end goal really. It’s just the overall health from other things you can’t see.

KATIE: Yeah. Well, I am just actually eating, like, a normal person should, kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like, we don’t eat enough vegetables. We eat too much food. I think it’s all these things where our diet has kind of shifted so much to where, like, you know, a steak is the center of the meal, and now, you’re just trying to fill your plate around it. Whereas, like, what I kind of heard her say is like, okay, think of these, like, veggies and sort of think of these whole fruits, and whole foods, and whole vegetables first. And then, figure out, “Okay, I need to get some protein. Let me do some beans and some rice, or something like that.” Which I think it’s just a different way of thinking. I think it’s hard for people to make that switch, but I -- some much will come out of it.      

ZACH: Mhmm. Alright. Well, we’ll give you an update in a future podcast about how the Mediterranean lifestyle is going for us.

KATIE: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like, maybe, a trip to the Mediterranean should fit in the Mediterranean lifestyle.

ZACH: I agree. We’ll get to work to pay for that.

KATIE: Yeah.

ZACH: So…

[Laughter]

Anyway, that’s gonna do it for this episode of On Health with Houston Methodist. We drop episodes Tuesday mornings, so be sure to share, like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And until then, stay tuned, and stay healthy.